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Prospector - A roguelike in space www.prospector.at • View topic - Space Battles: Should missiles be missilier?

Space Battles: Should missiles be missilier?

Any ideas how to improve the game or the site.

Should missiles be missilier?

yes
2
100%
no
0
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Total votes : 2

Space Battles: Should missiles be missilier?

Postby magellan » Sun 4. Jan 2015, 09:26

So i seriously need to revisit space combat.
And also a few weeks ago I saw this:
Image

So should missiles in spacecombat actually fly towards the target, maybe hit a rock or gascloud on their way, get shot down etc?
Obviously they would be very fast, and have high turn rates. Not sure if they should leave behind exhaust trails. But otherwise this might be fun...
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Re: Space Battles: Should missiles be missilier?

Postby Spacehamster » Tue 6. Jan 2015, 00:43

Sry for my engrish - i'm just a hamster :)

Space hamsters are never wrong!

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Re: Space Battles: Should missiles be missilier?

Postby magellan » Wed 7. Jan 2015, 14:42

This made me look at the actual stats of enemy ships.
And you are right: they are seriously overengined! Pirate fighters had engine 4 and 2 HP.
The formula for movepoints is engine*2-HP*0,15 for 7,7 rounded up resulting in 8 MPs with 9 being the highest possible!
And of course poor player can't put an engine 4 into his fighter.
Next version will also see an adjustment for armor type. Right now every HP makes you slower. More advanced types should weigh less and slow you down less, and they will do so in the future. 18 HP of diamonoid armor will weigh the same as 10 points of standard.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
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Re: Space Battles: Should missiles be missilier?

Postby magellan » Wed 7. Jan 2015, 14:58

Hmmm.... looking at those stats maybe some randomization would be nice?
Let pirate fighters for example have 1-5 hp and 1-2 engines? Random weapons? At least for pirates and merchants?
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Re: Space Battles: Should missiles be missilier?

Postby Spacehamster » Wed 7. Jan 2015, 19:04

Sry for my engrish - i'm just a hamster :)

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Re: Space Battles: Should missiles be missilier?

Postby magellan » Sat 10. Jan 2015, 10:27

I had the exact same thoughts concerning randomized ship stats. (Traders and Pirates don't get standard issue ships)

Your shield sides idea has actually been that way for quite some time.
Maneuvering jets do a bit of the thing you describe as afterburners
Firing arcs is something I have been thinking about, but am not sure how to implement. Maybe just generally have ships fire in front of them, and widening the firing arc according to number of turrets?
I like the turning cost thing.

Anyway i just opened a new file: spacecombat2.bas spacecombat code is ancient in parts, and propably redoing the whole thing would be better than just patching in new stuff. In the meantime I can still tinker with the rest of prospector and propably will release a minor update tomorrow.
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Re: Space Battles: Should missiles be missilier?

Postby Spacehamster » Sat 10. Jan 2015, 17:19

Sry for my engrish - i'm just a hamster :)

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Re: Space Battles: Should missiles be missilier?

Postby magellan » Tue 13. Jan 2015, 16:36

My main problem with firing arcs is concerning the user interface. Also I am not sure how fun it would be to juggle weapons between different turrets.
A simplistic approach might be the best: 45° in front per turret. That would give the battleship a respectable 180° and the ASCS an ability to fire over it's shoulder with 225°.
But please: Go on. Let me hear your ideas if you aren't too tired :)
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Re: Space Battles: Should missiles be missilier?

Postby FriskyTentacles » Sat 14. Feb 2015, 16:56

So maybe ships can have turret locations? Like a port turret, an aft turret, a fore turret, and possibly even an omnidirectional turret slot.

Make it so that it only allows you to select a turret that can hit the enemy. I'd love to see ships with odd firing angles, it'd make engines super good for strafing the enemy. Plus you'd see some interesting hull designs where all the turrets face backwards or are all on one side.
Giant enemy goat.
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Re: Space Battles: Should missiles be missilier?

Postby Seraph » Mon 9. Mar 2015, 01:04

I know I'm new and all, but I thought I'd throw my 0.02cr into the mix here.

Missiles:
Ship to Ship missiles should probably be moving so fast (advanced propellants) that only the longest-range shots would have time to animate a missile flying at all. Consider that the current SRAAM Sidewinder missile flies at Mach 2.7; that's short-range. Long range missiles tend more towards Mach 4+. I suppose it really all depends on the scale of distance in space battles, which is admittedly difficult to discern - a destroyer and a fighter occupy 1 tile each, regardless of the implied massive size difference. How 'far' is 1 tile in space combat, then?

That said, I like the idea of other things interacting with/stopping missiles. I'm not entirely sure you need to draw flying missiles for that though - couldn't it be handled by invisible detection of obstacles, gunner skill, luck, etc? Without seeing it, though, it just feels like the game is cheating you out of shots. It's hard to deny a player the results of their actions without incurring bad feels. It's a sticky wicket, to be sure.

Current enemies:
Absolutely are too statistically advantaged. (I still wouldn't say pirate fighters are powerful.) Only top-end spoileriffic threats and unique, named targets should be that borked - everything else should work within an approximation of the restrictions the player is under; an non-unique enemy destroyer should never be able to do something a player destroyer couldn't.

Firing arcs:
A thematically good idea that would be annoying in practice for the players. Nobody likes not being able to shoot their weapons at things; it feels terrible, like you wasted money/effort on the weapon that isn't useful in this moment.

Also, there is an assumption in most roguelikes (including this one, a lot of the time) that there is no 'active' facing - your character/ship essentially faces every open direction as they need to. The presence of shield arcs in space means that there is some element of facing in this game already, but making it more complex will require more inputs. Like adjustment jets to change facing without moving, or the ability to cut all thrust and drift on inertia (the better to keep you in my forward launcher arcs, my dear). And more inputs does not always equal better gameplay - sometimes it just equals more tedium and confusion for your players.

APS:
-Flares are not terribly useful in space, because they would not overwhelm a ship's engine heat signature. A flare that could is a gigantic waste of technological development and I can't see many civilizations doing so. They'd stick with the more useful options below, and develop them into a better form.
-Chaff is somewhat useful, but you'd have to release a cloud of (present-day, conventional) chaff somewhere near the size of an asteroid to distract missiles from the radar signature of a big-ass spaceship. (A drone, emitting a cloned radar pulse, would be better suited for this - and MUCH more awesome!) It's also possible that advanced science = advanced radar-emitting materials...but I doubt it.
-Point-defense Weapons (anti-missiles, anti-fighter guns) are the big winner here, being not just practical but REALLY TROPEY for space vehicles. The idea of devoting a weapon slot to a PDW, which would then make Gunner rolls to take out drones and missiles as they come, is extremely interesting.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, take them with a grain (or mountain) of salt. Hopefully something helpful was in there somewhere.
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